i was told during the debt ceiling negotiations in 2011, the summer of 2011, a senior democrat suggests, why tonight you have a bunch of folks over to dinner, and the president said, no, i'm not going to do that. that's his job. >> they argue, or the president, i should say, argues, they take absolutist positions, and they're the ones who are refusing to negotiate. true or not? >> look, i think it's easy to demonize people when you don't know them. that's what dana's hearing from the hill. even democrats don't know the president very well. >> and here's an example of that. joe manch in, probably the most conservative democrat in the senate now, when he was first elected, he heard from the president, and then not again till he came out against guns. the whole idea is kind of surprising, because every senate vote matter, and joe manchin is somebody who strayed. er in mind not talking to republicans, it's fellow democrats he needs and doesn't always have. >> are we talking about it and it's kind of a washington parlor game, are they friends, are they not friends -- >> no, it matters, it ma